First, a post lifted from Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit; then my comments below the star line - - -
Reynolds' post:
If someone was sending rockets on my house where my daughters were sleeping at night, I would do everything to stop it, and I would expect Israelis to do the same thing.
These aren’t my words — they’re Barack Obama’s. But I attach myself to this sentiment.
Me too.
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Comments:
Our President-elect said it just right.
I sign with him, Goldberg and Reynolds.
What about you?
15 comments:
That's just common sense.
I roll my eyes everytime I see 'Israel attacks ....' with no mention of attacks against them before hand. Just plain disgusting.
Scott S.
A friend asked me the other day what I would do if a member of the Osage Tribe showed up on my doorstep and told me to move out because I was an interloper on his ancestral tribal lands given to him by his God. I had no answer.
Israel should adopt a very public "10 for 1" policy. For every mortar shell and rocket fired at Israel from Gaza, Israel should fire back 10. Unfortunately, they are too civilized to target civilians and children, and therefore look weak to the Palestinians. They could flatten Gaza in a week, and should.
Anonymous 0:39:
"if a member of the Osage Tribe showed up on my doorstep and told me to move out because I was an interloper on his ancestral tribal lands given to him by his God.?"
That's why you obtain title insurance when you purchase a home.
Ken
Dallas
Do you suppose those Palestineans had title insurance? And what kind of title did the Jews have?
I will be shocked if Obama carries through. He is too dependent on those who see Israel's existence as colonialism and imposition of western values on an oppressed native populace. Obama talks a good game, but he knows on which side his bread is buttered.
And if the Osage can take back the land, well and good. If they want it given.. I don't think history provides much support.
The Osage and other tribes tried their best to hold onto their land, but "Great White Father" declared Manifest Destiny and the rest is history. I suppose the same thing will eventually happen to the Palestineans. I only wish we weren't involved as a partisan.
Hamas does consider the Israelis weak. It was announced on this evening's news that the Israeli government is willing to declare a bombing truce - again showing that they are more than willing to cave to world opinion that is so adroitly manipulated by Hamas's supporters.
What is not so widely supported is that the Egyptians are hoping that Israeli wil prevail. The Egyptians want peace - they need peace and stability. The burgeoning population can only remain peaceful if the economy can keep pace. Egypt is the major purveyor of electric power (the Awan Dam) not only for itself but also for Israel. Israel has the water that the people of this area so desperately need both for personal and industrial concerns.
Hamas needs to be dealt with severely and they need to be made aware that just like the Indians in the US have had to acccept manifest destiny, they will ahve to accept the decision made by the British back in the early years of the last century. Cold and cruelo - yes, but the nations of the world cannot keep trying to go back and make amends for past actions - if so, where would it stop? Should I demand assistance from the British because my forebears were forced to emigrate rather than starve in 1845? Or should I request assistance from the Hapsburgs because of the wars fought in the 16th and 17th centuries that drove my Palatinate ancestors to leave their farms because they were always on the wrong religious side?
cks
Which of course poses the question: how and why were the Jewish refugees permitted to take over lands which Palestineans had considered home for generations? Your analogy has a flaw.
cks: "...the nations of the world cannot keep trying to go back and make amends for past actions."
I couldn't agree more. But isn't that exactly what the nations of the world allowed the Zionists to do? The Balfour Declaration was simply the British giving up trying to keep the peace, then after WWII the European Jews arrived in huge numbers and took Palestine as their own, using the Bible as their land title. Since that time, there has been no peace in the Middle East and the United States is enabling Israel to commit war crimes. The Palestinians are being used by other Arab states as a tool to aggravate Israel, and the Palestinian revolutionary groups are clearly guilty of terrorism. In short, there are no innocent participants in this mess. And because America is not by any definition a neutral power, we are deeply involved in this situation; thus, we are considered nothing more than Israel's puppet-master and a legitimate target of Muslim outrage. I'm not saying the Muslims are justified in their hatred--simply that we have allowed ourselves to become their target. We are violating the political warning issued by George Washington in his farewell address: we are in an "entangling foreign alliance" and for what?
Anon:
The English came into Ireland (Elizabeth first and then with massive forces William) not only taking land but forcing the Irish to abandon their language and give up their religion (though many refused and were persecuted as a result). The land was then distributed to absentee landlords who did nothing to improve the land - turning Ireland into one of the poorest regions of Europe.
Regarding the Holy Land, there had been a Jewish presence there from the time that Jews returned after the Diaspora. And while that number was small, the claim of Jews to the land stretches back long before the birth of Christ and predates that of many of the descendents of the Muslims (Seljuk and Ottoman) who now live in the region. While one can argue that the means by which the French and the British decided to divvy up the land was wrong (Sykes-Picot Agreement and the Balfour Declaration) - unfortunately, it is what it is today. Israel has been able to make the desert bloom in a way that the Palestinians have not - in fact, one can argue that it has been the goal of the Palestinians to wreak havoc on anything that might be useful to improving the economy in the region. Both the Jordanians and the Egyptians realize that peace in the area is a plus for all and that peace can only be achieved when Hamas and other militant Muslim organizations and countries recognize Israel's right to exist. Muhammad himself recognized the importance of Judaism and Christianity - considered their adherents to be People of the Book - which is why they were allowed to freely practice their religion in the Muslim empire. Perhaps modern day Muslims of all stripes should go back and study their early history (something I would urge for members of all religions).
cks
cks: You are well-educated on the historical aspects and I salute you. But what are we doing in the middle of that mess? We pretend to be a neutral power attempting to bring about peace, but we are clearly in the Israel camp. And the Israelis have clearly shown their contempt for us; they did their best to sink one of our ships, killing and wounding a number of our sailors (USS LIBERTY-1968); and they exploited our secrets (the Pollard Affair). I have to ask: what do we owe Israel?
Anon:
Thank you for the compliment. The reason why we find ourselves in the middle of the Israeli-Palestinian mess goes back to the guilt that many in government and the media felt for not having done more for Jews who were persecuted by the Nazis (ie lifting immigration restrictions, bombing concentration and death camps, etc). This guilt has been manipulated in such a way that there are many students today who believe that the United States was at fault rather than Germany and other European nations where anti-semitism had long been (and in some still is) the norm. Therefore, to do anything other than give Israel a blank check is seen as being pro-terrorist. What can be done? I am not sure - though I do think that if our politicians and citizens were better grounded in history that might be a start. I do think that aid to moderate Muslim countries and to countries(like Turkey) which is trying to be, like the US, a secular country where freedom of all religions is tolerated is a start. I also think that we need to operate both behind the scenes as well as publically to let the Israelis know that US support is not a given.
cks
The other day, on NPR, I heard a Hamas apologist say that the bombs that were being lobbed out of Gaza were being lobbed by Israeli agents as cover for the IDF's destruction of the government of Gaza and to terrorize the people locked in Gaza. I have no idea if it is true or not, like so much of what one hears on NPR.
Though isn't it ironic that the grandchildren of the Palestinians who, in 1948 were ethnically cleansed from what is now southern Israel and herded and locked up in Gaza, are being bombed by the IDF for allegedly bombing their grandparents land.
Today 1.5 million people are locked in that sandy concentration camp called Gaza. Please spare me the recitation of how the Israelis made the desert bloom, and how beastly the Germans were to the Jews in WWII. Until you have paid you dues with boots on the ground and lived the daily conflict, not as a tourist, but as a witness to the daily carnage, you might as well just say that you are a statist and let it go with that because we already know Uncle Sam's position.
To quote Brzezinski out of context: "You know, [some of] you have such a stunningly superficial knowledge of what went on that it's almost embarrassing to listen to you."
It is also very useful to remember the State of Israel owes its existence to terrorism. The Hagganah and Irgun were two Israeli terrorist groups that plied their craft on the Arabs as well as the British (the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946)--and also Count Folke Bernadotte the Swedish U.N. diplomat they murdered in 1946(?). Menachim Begin was one of the most active of the Irgun terrorists and he later became Prime Minister. So if we have problems with Hammas or other Palestinian terrorists, we should remember our friends of Israelis started with terrorism. What I'm saying is there are no clean hands in that hell-hole. I only hope we can moderate our one-sided support for Israel and establish a policy of even-handedness to all countries in the region.
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