One of my favorite bloggers, Betsy Newmark, posted on a George Will column. Betsy's post drew a comment from a reader, Paster Ray. I decided to respond to Ray.
Here first is the part of Betsy's post that drew Ray's comment:
George Will has a very powerful column today about how shoddy Maryland has been in their legislation against Wal-Mart. Every time I write about Wal-Mart I get some people in my comments section who have bought into the demonization of a company that has done more to help lower-income people than almost any other company in America.Now Pastor Ray's entire comment:
"Every time I write about Wal-Mart I get some people in my comments section who have bought into the demonization of a company that has done more to help lower-income people..."(bold in Ray's comment)Now my response to Ray which I left on Betsy's comment thread.
At least Ms. Newmark has the historical savvy to offer us the apologetic that's been used to justify sweatshops since before Dickens.
Pastor Ray | 01.19.06 - 10:51 am | #
Pastor Ray,
Dickens? Did you really read George Will's column? Do you know anything about Wal-Mart workers except what we all hear from “activists?”
Do you know that in the part of North Carolina where Betsy lives, a number of large, well-endowed, liberal oriented universities and churches compete with Wal-Mart for workers?
And can you guess why the Wal-Mart workers are there instead of at the universities and churches? That’s right, Wal-Mart made them the best offer.
Yes, some Wal-Mart employees complain they're not well treated so their lives are miserable. But don't some employees at Ben & Jerry's, the U.N., and National Public Radio say the same things?
Would you believe , Pastor Ray, that many Wal-Mart employees are regular savers. Some are saving to buy a house or a new car. Some will send a kid to college. Others are putting something aside for old age.
I've never met a Wal-Mart employee who complained of not having enough to eat. They have decent clothes. They have hobbies. They take vacations.
Dickens? That’s nonsense.
The Victorian author you and “activists” condemning Wal-Mart bring to mind is Anthony Trollope.
Have you ever read any of Trollope’s satires of the comfortable and smug “activists” of his day? They wanted to do everything for the poor except share their own material goods with them.
Some of Trollope’s books have been grouped into what’s called The Barchester Chronicles. They share a focus on hypercritical church connected “activists.”
My favorite is The Warden; but I love them all. They always get me smiling, sometimes even laughing out loud. I’m laughing right now just thinking about The Warden.
Pastor Ray, if you put down Dickens and pick up Trollope, you’ll find yourself transported from the 19th century to today.
And maybe you’ll be convinced to do nothing to interfere with the job opportunities of people who want to work at Wal-Mart.
Think about it.
John
www.johnincarolina.com
12 comments:
John, you honor me by publishing my brief comment on your blog.
I'll respond to you here as I did over on Betsy's Page and cite the Wal-Mart statistic that makes North Carolina famous in the Wal-Mart controversy:
A North Carolina hospital found that 31 percent of 1,900 patients who described themselves as Wal-Mart employees were on Medicaid, while an additional 16 percent had no insurance at all.
And this page makes good reading.
Pastor Ray
Dear Pastor Ray,
I've responded to you on the thread at Betsy's Page.
I'll also be posting on all of this tomorrow.
Meanwhile, two things:
1)Please answer the questions I asked you. http://www.haloscan.com/comments/
betsynewmark/113767171984444537/
2) Thank you for commenting in so civil a tone. Many people - left, center and right - don't do that.
John
Ray -
What percentage of non-Wal Mart employees are on Medicaid? And can you break that down by age?
I'd be shocked if a 65 year old retired man doing handyman work at your church was better off than if he was a greeter at Wal-Mart.
-AC
John -- Life's too short to follow one conversation across two websites ... The North Carolina data illustrate the reliance of Wal-Mart's employees on support from Medicaid, which jives with the findings from other states. For an introduction to the issue and a discussion of how the Washington Post (along with George Will) misconstrues the data (by failing to focus on the use of Medicaid by employees' children), see the following recent article from Media Matters:
Jeremy Schulman, and Raphael Schweber-Koren. January 13, 2006. Wash. Post editorial repeated misleading Wal-Mart health care defense; editorial board member made same claim less than two months ago. Media Matters For America, online: http://mediamatters.org/items/200601130006.
Also, I take it that when you refer to Trollope's portrayal of "hypercritical church connected "activists."", you mean to demean Christians whose faith includes compassion for our society's most needy and least powerful members. Are you attempting to personify Trollope's assertion, "There are worse things than a lie. I have found … that it may be well to choose one sin in order that another may be shunned" (Dr. Wortle's School)? Either way, of course, you end up siding with sin, which is unfortunate and unnecessary because, with Wal-Mart, there's an opportunity to follow the money and maximize the self-interests of all citizens.
Pastor Ray
Pastor Ray -
Uh, if you can stand to read Dickens (I've read them all) then you'll enjoy Trollope.
And if the Bishop of Barchester doesn't make you think of some of our mega-church preachers, then I'd be surprised.
As I noted, I don't really know what it means that Wal-Mart employees depend on Medicaid for health care. Do they do so at a greater rate than their un/employeed peers? If so, then you might start to have an argument for causality, otherwise there logically can't be one.
-AC
Dear Pastor Ray,
In your latest comment you say, "Life's too short to follow one conversation across two websites."
But in your first comment you said, "I'll respond to you here as I did over on Betsy's Page."
Which do you want: a one or a two site conversation?
If one, which?
You've answered none of the questions I've asked you. Why not?
Do you think I'll carry on a conversation much longer with someone who doesn't answer relevant questions?
You say, "I take it that when you refer to Trollope's portrayal of "hypercritical church connected "activists."", you mean to demean Christians whose faith includes compassion for our society's most needy and least powerful members."
You take my words wrong, Pastor. When I referred to "hypercritical church connected 'activists'" I meant "hypercritical church connected 'activists.'" How did you miss that?
I'll be posting on some of this in the next few days. By then I hope to be able to tell JinC readers you've answered the questions.
John
I interpreted your remarks as demeaning of Christians because
(i) First, you defined a group: "The Victorian author you and "activists" condemning Wal-Mart bring to mind is Anthony Trollope."
(ii) Then, you further characterized the group and described an MO for its actions: "Trollope’s satires of the comfortable and smug "activists" of his day? They wanted to do everything for the poor..." In other words, they were a group who expressed "compassion for our society's most needy and least powerful members."
(iii) Lastly, you labeled the group and identified it as Christian: "Some of Trollope’s books ... share a focus on hypercritical church connected "activists.""
I interpreted your words as demeaning of Christians (at least, those whose faith extends to the social justice surrounding Wal-Mart) because that is what you said, although the Lord knows your heart.
Regardless, conversation is one thing, and a pissing contest is another. Anyone who applauds civility ought to know the difference between the two and cultivate the former. I'll see you online --
Pastor Ray
AC, You asked what it meant for a Wal-Mart employee to depend on Medicaid for health care. Basically, it refers to the high percentage of Wal-Mart employees whose children are in the Medicaid system. "High percentage" is determined by comparing Wal-Mart's employees with those from other companies. See the Media Matters article that I hyperlinked to, earlier in the thread.
Pastor Ray
Pastor Ray,
You're not answering the questions and you're misrepresenting what I've said.
John
That's sort of wierd, Pastor Ray. I am a Christian and I didn't feel demeaned.
Maybe I'm just not a good enough one.
Oh, yeah, one more thing. It is just possible that many of the people that work at Wal-Mart needing help from Medicaid, etc. work at Wal-Mart because they have health problems requiring special scheduling and time off etc. to address these problems. I know that is the case close to where I live. I can guarantee that the average health of the personnel is lower at our Wal-Mart than at the other employers in the area because no other employers will work with them to allow them to keep their jobs when health concerns of themselves or loved ones require accomodation by the employer.
And no, I do not work at Wal-Mart. But I do know of quite a few cases as described above.
Dear Straight Arrow,
Because of your comments and those of other JinC regulars who are trying to reach out and help Pastor Ray, I don't need to respond to him in any substantial way.
You all are doing a wonderful job. You can help him if anyone can.
I can now spend on other posts, the time I would otherwise have spent responding to Ray.
In about an hour or so, I'll put up a short post, “JinC regulars pastor the Pastor.”
I’ll express appreciation to JinC regulars for volunteering to help Pastor Ray. Then I’ll say a little about some posts I’m working on.
Thank you all.
John
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