tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post9160714418388142627..comments2024-01-04T07:21:18.243-05:00Comments on John In Carolina: Duke Prof OK With Rove's TreatmentUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-20582363305150968182007-12-05T17:52:00.000-05:002007-12-05T17:52:00.000-05:00Prof Munger:"Shouting "murderer" shows strong disa...Prof Munger:<BR/><BR/>"Shouting "murderer" shows strong disapproval."<BR/><BR/>I would agree. The lack of any rules of decorum encourage such abusive conduct.<BR/><BR/>If the student learns that this type of communication is accepted, he/she will be headed for a unfortunate reaction in another forum.<BR/><BR/>Ken<BR/>DallasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-72712900366359108062007-12-05T17:24:00.000-05:002007-12-05T17:24:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Just a Thoughthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10811109962632188021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-48265916983690175142007-12-05T17:18:00.000-05:002007-12-05T17:18:00.000-05:00Oh, I think one should question folks' JUDGMENT in...Oh, I think one should question folks' JUDGMENT in yelling stuff like that. The protesters, yellers, and slanderous question askers discredit themselves.<BR/><BR/>One of the exchanges went like this:<BR/><BR/>1. Questioner goes on and on about how Rove is a murderer and a liar.<BR/><BR/>2. Karl says this is slander, there is no basis for it, and the questioner is a lunatic.<BR/><BR/>3. The audience applauds.<BR/><BR/>The point is that this is NOT a classroom. It is a free-speech forum where people of different views get to argue. And Rove didn't need armed thugs to protect him, because he is quite skilled in a debate, even a mean-spirited debate.<BR/><BR/>As for the shouts, sure, I wish there had been none. But there just weren't many, and they were not disruptive. <BR/><BR/>The context of my letter may matter. Some people at Duke had called for the shouters to be brought up on charges of violating the honor code. I think that is wrong, and said so. That was my point: no criminal charges should be brought against people who shouted "liar!"<BR/><BR/>If you ask me where the line is, what WOULD have been enough to trigger police action, then I agree that that is an interesting question. I'd say, if someone had stood up and started shouting, in the middle of one of Mr. Rove's statements, and continued for more than just a few seconds, they should have been removed from the hall. THAT would have been disruptive.<BR/><BR/>Shouting "murderer" shows strong disapproval. Clapping and cheering (which is what most people did, most of the time) shows approval. Both are within the rather LARGE bounds of behavior allowed in a forum like this.Mungowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02340064320347875601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-10959586686010763822007-12-05T16:56:00.000-05:002007-12-05T16:56:00.000-05:00Prof Munger:"A public lecture is different."I gues...Prof Munger:<BR/><BR/>"A public lecture is different."<BR/><BR/>I guess I am having a hard time seeing the difference (except to say that there is seemingly no penalty for verbal abuse at a public lecture.)<BR/><BR/>When a listener cries "murderer" at the speaker at a public lecture, what is the accuser trying to achieve?<BR/><BR/>Ken<BR/>DallasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-14980978766633453512007-12-05T16:34:00.000-05:002007-12-05T16:34:00.000-05:00Did they have serious grade inflation, or are you ...<I>Did they have serious grade inflation, or are you just very badly out of practice?</I><BR/><BR/>No grade inflation. This isn't an academic argument because posters on this board (including yourself) are not tracking points made and referenced with counterpoints made and referenced. Also, the posters on this board have so far been quite hostile to my point of view and references. I have never had a professor be this hostile; they tend to argue using points instead of personal attacks to maintain an academic debate. Regardless of viewpoint they commonly play “devil’s advocate” to oppose the class viewpoint and help the students learn to criticize the ideas put forward by each side of a debate.Just a Thoughthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10811109962632188021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-27802473951512086182007-12-05T16:20:00.000-05:002007-12-05T16:20:00.000-05:00The "we aren't Columbia...just give us time!" line...The "we aren't Columbia...just give us time!" line made me laugh, I have to admit.<BR/><BR/>I guess it is a matter of degree. There were no more than three or four shouts, in 75 minutes. These shouts were brief. Offensive, yes, but brief.<BR/><BR/>The audience laughed, applauded warmly, and seemed to enjoy the presentation.<BR/><BR/>I had dinner with Karl Rove afterward, with just a few other people, and we all agreed it was surprising that people were so civil.<BR/><BR/>Now, maybe you are right to say that my standards for civility are too low. I'll leave you to judge that for yourself.<BR/><BR/>But the comparison to a classroom is silly. If I had had Karl come to my classroom, you can bet that I would have shut any protesters up immediately. And anyone who shouted insults would have been punished.<BR/><BR/>A public lecture is different. Protests and shouts are part of the show, as long as they are not too intrusive. And these protests and shouts were NOT, in my opinion, intrusive at all.<BR/><BR/>As for the questions, Karl ate people up. He is not without rhetorical resources of his own, and of course (remember THE WEDDING SINGER?) Karl had a MICROPHONE.Mungowitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02340064320347875601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-92039107031985212822007-12-05T15:48:00.000-05:002007-12-05T15:48:00.000-05:00"When I took Poly Sci I disagreed with the profess..."When I took Poly Sci I disagreed with the professor during each and every class and ended up not getting kicked out (and received an <B>excellent grade</B>). Most of the grading in these courses depends on ones ability to defend the arguments they are making. You can disagree, <B>just have defendable reasons.</B>"<BR/><BR/>Did they have serious grade inflation, or are you just very badly out of practice?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-83229028954533768012007-12-05T14:31:00.000-05:002007-12-05T14:31:00.000-05:00John:I agree with you that Prof Munger's remarks w...John:<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that Prof Munger's remarks were bizarre at best.<BR/><BR/>Here is Chair of a high level department defending "murder" and "slander" remarks as entirely appropriate verbal remarks made toward an invited speaker.<BR/><BR/>If such assaults were used by students toward a professor, the immediate action who be the removal of said students from the lecture followed by an "F' grade.<BR/><BR/>The fact that this man holds a chair at Duke indicates the level of bias that infects the institution.<BR/><BR/>Ken<BR/>DallasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-72026381322968397352007-12-05T14:21:00.000-05:002007-12-05T14:21:00.000-05:00A major conservative speaker came to campus, gave ...<I> A major conservative speaker came to campus, gave a lengthy talk and was not shouted down or even seriously interrupted. That would not have happened at most of the schools we consider to be our peers.</I><BR/><BR/>"We're not Columbia yet. Give us time."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com