tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post6951587693502398370..comments2024-01-04T07:21:18.243-05:00Comments on John In Carolina: KC Johnson NowUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger78125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-89793102099439487892009-06-29T09:15:14.471-04:002009-06-29T09:15:14.471-04:00Ken in Dallas (2:19 AM),
You wrote, “KC has trie...Ken in Dallas (2:19 AM),<br /> <br />You wrote, “KC has tried to blend a search for the truth with a mix of political liberalism. Unfortunately the two don't mix well in the DL case.” Nicholas Kristof, a columnist for the New York Times, Duke chemist Steven Baldwin, and Harvey Silverglate (FIRE) are all liberals, to name three who have come to the defense of the lacrosse players. Because of her seeming scorn for civil liberties, Nancy Grace is disliked on the political left. Although it has some facts to support it, your generalization fails to hold up in at least these cases. Moreover, your comments widen, rather than heal the rift that has developed between liberal and conservative students of this case.<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-79851125821761843922009-06-05T15:25:28.457-04:002009-06-05T15:25:28.457-04:00"What's left now? KC, the Diva, Halidas&q..."What's left now? KC, the Diva, Halidas"?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Wash your mouth out with soap!<br /><br />Don't lump Halides with "them"! ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-38901283220603275212009-06-05T05:19:53.871-04:002009-06-05T05:19:53.871-04:00How unfortunate for Joan Foster, the queen of the ...How unfortunate for Joan Foster, the queen of the banners becomes the banee -poor baby.<br /><br />My suspicions about the fake woman Debbie confirmed.<br /><br />I have enjoyed your blog JIC, thanks for all your good work.<br /><br />And last but not least, marriage is not a right. Anything you have the ask the gooberment for permission to do is not a right, so get over it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-21700970952463212272009-05-27T23:13:12.421-04:002009-05-27T23:13:12.421-04:00John,
Your leaving blogging is a big loss. Do you...John,<br /><br />Your leaving blogging is a big loss. Do you know there are many at Duke who follow you?<br /><br />What's left now? KC, the Diva, Halidas?<br /><br />Can't you find an hour every day to post something? A lot of us are hoping.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-47604816908774179622009-05-27T15:23:41.696-04:002009-05-27T15:23:41.696-04:00John:
"If you see this please let me know you hav...John:<br /><br />"If you see this please let me know you have."<br /><br />Confirmed.<br /><br />Ken<br />DallasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-65171285850086366292009-05-27T15:20:56.919-04:002009-05-27T15:20:56.919-04:00To S. Fogarty @ 12:43,
I'm not sure KC found ...To S. Fogarty @ 12:43,<br /><br />I'm not sure KC found two "corroborating" witnesses to the events Hopman claimed happened for reasons I first discussed on this thread when he first made the claim.<br /><br />KC also makes very misleading statements and throws out red herrings. <br /><br />Reasonable people comparing what I actually said in "KC Johnson Now" with what KC on this thread says I said can see that.<br /><br />There are also the statements he's made here on the thread and in an email to me many months ago concerning the N&O withholding 13 months some of what Mangum said in the interview.<br /><br />What kind of scholar or fair person has the standard KC reveals he has?<br /><br />Joan Foster's subsequent response here is IMO excellent on the question. <br /><br />I agree with everything you say about the lacrosse players.<br /><br />Was your daughter a member of the '06 team?<br /><br />They were a remarkable group for their on the field achievements.<br /><br />But what I most respect them for is getting it right on the frame-up attempt and speaking publicly in Spring '06 declaring the players' "innocent."<br /><br />As you know they were the only large group at Duke who did either.<br /><br />I admire those young women and coach Kimel tremendously for that.<br /><br />To me it will always be their greatest achievement and a source of pride to all of us who love Duke wisely.<br /><br />JohnJWMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275423713054782480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-504166509970533392009-05-27T12:54:13.281-04:002009-05-27T12:54:13.281-04:00John,
Your decision baffles me. Would you provid...John,<br /><br />Your decision baffles me. Would you provide your reasons?<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-67832801440924943382009-05-27T12:43:02.153-04:002009-05-27T12:43:02.153-04:00I am sure that KC did find two people who confirme...I am sure that KC did find two people who confirmed the negative bar story about the lacrosse team. But their confirmation didn't make it true. There have obviously been many people who want and wanted to think the worst of these guys, and many just made things up about them. Even "friends" of mine said to my face, "Well, you know these kids are arrogant." They didn't even know one kid on the team. What these kids are and were is successful, smart, social and popular. They are the kind of people who cause jealousy to rear its ugly head. Unfortuantely, it is the unattractive side of human nature that leads the envious to attempt to knock the successrful off their pedestals. S. FogartyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-45712831606684917492009-05-27T12:25:21.718-04:002009-05-27T12:25:21.718-04:00To Chris Halidas @ 10:13 pm,
You say:
"I think t...To Chris Halidas @ 10:13 pm,<br /><br />You say:<br /><br />"I think that the best time and place to discuss further the issues that you raise is on my blog when it returns from hiatus."<br /><br />As a matter of courtesy I acknowledge your invitation.<br /><br />Having read what you've posted here and at DIW, I hope you and others who've read what you've written can understand why I've no inclination to do so.<br /><br />JohnJWMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275423713054782480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-2362852584560458082009-05-27T10:59:48.523-04:002009-05-27T10:59:48.523-04:00To Ken from Dallas @3:52,
I've counted you as a ...To Ken from Dallas @3:52, <br /><br />I've counted you as a Regular for a long time.<br /><br />You added a lot to the blog.<br /><br />If there was a prize for the person at JinC who said a lot, said it well and usually in just a few words, you'd be a finalist for sure.<br /><br />Keep checking in because there are some falsehoods still out there which need answering and I'll be doing some of that here in the next week or so.<br /><br />Thanks for everything.<br /><br />If you see this please let me know you have.<br /><br />JohnJWMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275423713054782480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-74753492204378939882009-05-27T09:24:26.677-04:002009-05-27T09:24:26.677-04:00Joan,
There is a post on this thread from “Kelly”...Joan,<br /><br />There is a post on this thread from “Kelly” at 10:38 AM. Are those your comments? I will be happy to address the issues that you raised after I attend to professional matters that must take precedence. These matters are the reason I was obliged to put my blog on hiatus, but I hope to complete them in a month.<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-1415258544069407142009-05-27T09:15:06.476-04:002009-05-27T09:15:06.476-04:00"ok so Hopman is now
delusional also...
so says th..."ok so Hopman is now<br />delusional also...<br />so says the lax parent.<br /><br />do we see another pattern<br />here?"<br /><br />Well, if a pattern is similar things happening over and over, I agree.<br /><br />Let's look at what we know. The first woman called "delusional"...Crystal Mangum..had her mental heath problems confirmed by none other than her own Mother, in an interview with a magazine.(Essence magazine, I believe) <br /><br />Later the Attorney General of the state of NC would declare her essentially too delusional to stand trial for her crime of false accusation. He recently reiterated his beliefs in her mental incapacities in an interview a few weeks ago.<br /><br />There was never any evidence to support her allegation, just agenda based wishful thinking. Those LAX players who insisted "nothing hasppened: were proven both truthful and absolutely innocent.<br /><br />Now we have another "fantastic lie" by another young woman with questionable motives....denied by those proven truthful before. In a city consumed to find any dirt on the LAX team...why were these two new witnesses (now suddenly revealed by KC) ever found before?<br /><br />I would ask KC why he finds them credible? How he confirmed their credibility?If they can adamantly confirm this story... why they did not have the integrity to step forward publicly and with their own names and reputations revealed...and support their friend at the time?<br /><br />If you are "fearless" enough to impugn the reputations of others at a most dangerous time, what does it say about you if you do it...only if YOU may be protected from responsibilty?<br /><br />Unfortunately, since the night Dan Rather exhorted me and millions other that he had a impeccable unbiased source for Bush;s National Guard memos...I simply cannot trust anyone's "impeccable" sources who must be hidden. Old Dan himself, banished back to Texas like whipped cowhand, stands as a symbol to how that all turned out.<br /><br />Allegation without evidence. Two young women with unverifiable stories. Anonymous rumors.<br /><br />Truthful kids telling the truth again. The "pattern" requires we believe them.joan fosternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-49906914611087768402009-05-27T07:37:04.456-04:002009-05-27T07:37:04.456-04:00OK....I openly admit that I am a "lax parent" of t...OK....I openly admit that I am a "lax parent" of two Duke lacrosse players,one a former member on the womens' team and a son who is now a Senior. I also have an older son who went to Duke and I am a Duke alum. Now you know all my Duke connections which does not preclude me from being delusional. <br />But I assure you I am not delusional. I can't tell you how much I wish that much of this horror show had been imagined.... <br />Excuse me for saying Hopman was delusional...I should have just called her a pathetic liar. S. FogartyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-54633932325173186142009-05-27T07:20:42.713-04:002009-05-27T07:20:42.713-04:003.Civility. I ask you to read John’s piece again. ...3.Civility. I ask you to read John’s piece again. He praises KC…states his areas of disagreement, asks some questions, wraps up with wishing him the best. Is this how KC has treated the "Group Apologist" (using derogatory labeling HE himself criticized in his own last post) Prof. Zimmermann? I have many areas of disagreement with Zimmermann, but ,through civil discourse, I’ve found many areas where we can agree. That used to be the goal of… ”debate.” <br /><br />I’d like to ask you, Chris, why a man who STATES he does not allow “ad hominem” attacks, continues over and over to allow someone else to make them for him in the comment section of his blog? He possesses a moderators button. He clears every one. A while back, when another “conservative poster" overstepped, KC cleared these two comments:<br /><br />Quote...Debrah.."An even scarier reality is that people like you, Spooky, and all the many regular commentators who are conservatives 'bathed' inside the atmosphere of Wonderland for a long time now.<br />Wonder why the myriad conservative blogs could never quite measure up to the Wonderland's 100,000 visitors a week during the peak of the Hoax and its current 15,000 visitors a week....and a following that will endure?<br />Must be something lacking in the 'smart' department on all those other blogs."<br /><br />AND THEN..<br /><br />Debrah..."That presumptuous and longwinded comment should have been deleted.<br /><br />I don't think many people give an enormous EFF what you're convinced of.<br /><br />You know nothing about ANYTHING except what KC has researched and written and what the rest of us experience from living in the Triangle.<br /><br />I'm sure all those shifty verbal gymnastics make you feel "grown up" again, but you are still the strange---(and literally very ugly man)---person who asked me, a total stranger, for a favor once and I was kind enough to get KC to sign a book for you.<br /><br />I find you to be mentally unstable.<br /><br />When a stupid piece of shIt tries to demean any woman he has never met and does not know---(I know many of the Gang of 88 better than I know you and have met many of those creeps!)----simply because she grew tired of getting emails from a stranger---especially one particular email that stated you would "like my legs around your head"---(whatever porn flick that must have come from....?????)<br /><br />......one must understand how much discipline it took not to tell everyone inside Wonderland what a mentally unstable loon you are.<br /><br />So tread lightly on all the other fora.<br /><br />I won't just "move on" the way KC does.”<br /><br />@@@@@ <br />Chris, this is appalling. <br /><br />My question before I ever enter your blog...do you agree with these types of attacks, yes or no?<br /><br />He is STILL clearing similar comments….. personal attacks, Chris, not opposing opinion…to this day. There is a pattern now on that blog. Watch for it. Many are, you know. <br /><br />So, Chris, ask yourself if any of this “troubles” you. If you care about him, ask your friend KC to review his own recent "tactics" and his own Wonderland “handbook”…and, with the civility he claims , and the free thinking he espouses… deal with some real issues that hang over the central theme of his blog these days<br /><br />And, if he truly is a man of integrity, WHICH I STILL THINK HE IS…we’ll see him clean up his Wonderland, so some of that free thinking and CIVIL exchange just might flourish again in his little fiefdom.joan fosternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-55351710336127728362009-05-27T07:13:31.524-04:002009-05-27T07:13:31.524-04:00Chris,
I’ll consider your offer. Perhaps that mig...Chris, <br />I’ll consider your offer. Perhaps that might be a place where KC would have the intellectual honesty to answer this:<br /><br />http://s1.zetaboards.com/Liestoppers_meeting/topic/1702525/1/ Read especially my last reply to him…the unanswered one.<br /><br />I’m aware that he is now relying on a diversionary tactic of pretending the only “issue” John and I have raised with him is whether I was “banned.” He is in his comfort zone if he can trivialize the opposing arguments and divert attention from all else. That is unworthy of a man of his intellect. My issues with him are stated above. I am (as labeled with his clearance at his blog) but a “crazy housewife” and John is similarly reduced…so I am puzzled with his reluctance to engage us civilly ON POINT. I ask you to read, Chris… not as a partisan, but as a person of integrity. I have come to believe that as difficult as it may be to speak truth to power, speaking truth to “friends” or even our “heroes” is much more painful. But it is necessary. Because KC has an important legacy of fine work to protect. Wonderland, as operating today, has become a threat to that legacy. To say nothing would make us complicit in undermining all the good he has done and can yet do. Friends don't let friends self-destruct. Or watch silently as those who fawn and flatter them...diminish them. Not with a legacy as important as KC's! <br /><br /> I can sum up my “issues” in three sentences:<br /><br />1. Topics, not Tactics?...Does KC only despise the tactics used by the 88 when they are employed as weapons in the Gender/Racial metanarrative…but approve of them for use by Gay Marriage advocates or any other agenda that HE embraces? All this time, was his rancor not at the “tactics” we saw used in the Hoax…but the topics of Race-Gender issues?<br /><br />This, Chris, is why the Miss California “debate” that day was so important. Because it hit at the cornerstone of that blog…KC’s impassioned advocacy for free thinking and open discourse. If Ms. California can be subjected to grade retaliation with KC high-fiving from Wonderland…then how can he point fingers at those who demean “helmeted athletes” or target lacrosse players on their own little turf? He says “civil rights” issue gives him a moral high ground to see that girl destroyed ; Chris, “they” used that same abuse-excuse in the Duke Frame.<br /><br />Furthermore, I simply could not believe that this man who has been the spokesman for free discourse was ridiculing me by name, then suppressing civil responses, finally shutting down his thread and then, essentially telling me to go away. How would he have handled our debate in his classroom?<br /><br />2. Location, location, location: Is KC only concerned with retaliation or thought suppression in academia…but not in any “lesser” arena like…a pageant convention hall…or factory workplace …or union hall? That’s what he seems to be saying. He seems to be mocking my empathy for Prejean because her career path is “unworthy”…so therefore her dreams and goals may be stripped from her by some angry middle-aged Gay Celebrity Blogger. That strikes me, Chris, as elitist and cruel. If you believe in freedom of thought, you do not qualify where it applies or allow yourself to decide who YOU THINK deserves to be able to articulate their Faith or personal beliefs. So…in those “lesser places", may people who will not bend to any one aspect of the PC agenda now be “punished” by the powerful and with full consent of Free Thinker Johnson? This is very important too, Chris, to the integrity of his stated mission over there.<br /><br />to be continuedjoan fosternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-57089427687670518692009-05-27T03:23:23.873-04:002009-05-27T03:23:23.873-04:00ok so Hopman is now
delusional also...
so says th...ok so Hopman is now <br />delusional also...<br />so says the lax parent.<br /><br />do we see another pattern<br />here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-48978397844796287282009-05-26T22:13:27.830-04:002009-05-26T22:13:27.830-04:00John and Joan,
I think that the best time and pla...John and Joan,<br /><br />I think that the best time and place to discuss further the issues that you raise is on my blog when it returns from hiatus.<br /><br />ChrisChris Halkideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14933976220776524122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-21201402327906824622009-05-26T22:11:25.044-04:002009-05-26T22:11:25.044-04:00Professor Chris Halidas @UNC-Wilmington is off for...Professor Chris Halidas @UNC-Wilmington is off for the whole summer and has a bone in his teeth.<br /><br />He's running with it. But he doesn't make any sense. Why are you spending so much time answering him?<br /><br />He's got KC and the Diva. No disrespect meant John. You told us the truth from day one. A lot of us are going to miss you.<br /><br />Good Luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-28647008308710424582009-05-26T19:47:11.109-04:002009-05-26T19:47:11.109-04:00John,
I've followed everything since you post...John,<br /><br />I've followed everything since you posted on KC.<br /><br />I knew he was way off on the N&O but I didn't know he approved of the N&O's withholding the exculpatory evidence from the Mangum interview that they gussied up to make her look like a victim.<br /><br />Between that and his finding those Charlie's "witnesses" that I think he faked he's off my reading list.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-27648785361348179722009-05-26T15:52:51.221-04:002009-05-26T15:52:51.221-04:00-RD 11:01AM:
"I want to again thank you for your ...-RD 11:01AM:<br /><br />"I want to again thank you for your very thoughtful commentary over the years. I have followed your blog for a long time and will miss it."<br /><br />A very classy statement. Are you the same guy?<br /><br />Ken (the Putz)<br />DallasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-31118923031808011842009-05-26T15:26:46.739-04:002009-05-26T15:26:46.739-04:00To Pancea,
Please read the post noting the dates ...To Pancea,<br /><br />Please read the post noting the dates of many of the links and you'll see what you say just isn't true.<br /><br />Then I hope you'll have the grace to comment again acknowledging your error.<br /><br />People are of differing opinions regarding what I did.<br /><br />That's to be expected.<br /><br />JohnJWMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275423713054782480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-19458481260026621772009-05-26T15:25:54.916-04:002009-05-26T15:25:54.916-04:00KC: The idea that it would have been responsible r...KC: The idea that it would have been responsible reporting for the N&O to simply float out the idea that a claim existed that the second dancer was raped is hard to believe. With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, JinC suggests that people would have recognized this as exculpatory information. Let me offer my own 20-20 hindsight--a significant section of the Durham and Duke "communities" would have cited this information to demand additional charges against other players, Kim Roberts could very well have played along, and the prospect of such charges from a venal DA with nothing to lose would have hung over the players throughout the summer and fall of 2006.<br /><br />In short, I believe that on this particular issue the N&O acted with extraordinary responsibility."<br /><br />@@@@@@<br /><br />I'd like to also take the opportunity to comment on this. Some of us believe the newspaper's job is to report accurately and truthfully. Not to omit key details or "shape" stories. There is this detail about TRUTH.<br />That is their "responsibility."<br /><br />The second rape is a key part of the accurate account of what Mangum HERSELF told the N&O that day. Once we begin omitting parts of it...we are inserting our views of what stays and goes. I prefer to make judgments from the WHOLE truth..not someone else's edit.<br /><br />Period. <br /><br />It was not up to the N&O to "help" anyone by fixing that story...not the players nor Mangum. <br /><br />Frankly I find the excuse that the N&O was trying to behave "responsibly" to the players at that moment in time quite "hard to believe." One need only review the body of work of their early reporting. There is, for one example,the matter of the Wanted Poster...that handy guide to the Lacrosse Team published as an armed hate team came to town "to interview" Lacrosse team members.<br /><br />By shaping Mangum's story, in fact, the N&O added to her credibility. Roberts had just declared her story "a crock." The whole issue of racial solidarity might been diffused if Roberts had been forced to either also claim rape or confront Mangum's lies.<br /><br />More importantly...in a case where the question of the accuser telling many versions of her story...here was yet another "story." It was a hit to her credibility as, I believe, the N&O understood. How many versions of her story could their sweet victim put out there? This was a huge NEW conflicting detail.<br /><br />But the bottom line was..it was the accurate true account of what Crystal Mangum said in her only EVER interview. This is what a good newspaper owes to its reader: truth and accuracy.joan fosternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-39022453837282086382009-05-26T15:24:12.580-04:002009-05-26T15:24:12.580-04:00To S. Fogarty @ 1:51 pm,
I'm very glad you co...To S. Fogarty @ 1:51 pm,<br /><br />I'm very glad you commented. You've added strength to my statement in "KC Johnson Now" that the N&O had published an uncorroborated smear at a time when the players' safety was at risk.<br /><br />I hope you know I made very clear in the post and my comment on this thread that no one had ever corroborated the woman's allegations.<br /><br />When I read KC's claim in his response to the post that he'd found 2 "corroborating" witnesses it was one of the saddest and toughest moments I've had blogging. <br /><br />My first thought was to delete it. Then I thought KC would only take that and run with it.<br /><br />I thought about what to do overnight and talked with a few people well-disposed toward justice in the DL case whom I respect greatly.<br /><br />I settled on the response anyone can read above and which I certainly hope you have.<br /><br />You'll see what I was doing.<br /><br />If you can think of other things I can do, please comment here or offline.<br /><br />Thank you for commenting and for posts you've placed in other places, some of which I've posted at JinC or called to readers attention.<br /><br />JohnJWMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275423713054782480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-5340401890181063402009-05-26T14:34:03.080-04:002009-05-26T14:34:03.080-04:00John, what is the real reason you and Liestoppers ...John, what is the real reason you and Liestoppers are going after Professor KC Johnson? <br /> <br />People wouldn't have been so turned off if you had brought up these issues months ago.<br /><br />Why didn't you do it then?Panaceahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02950768996271184024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-41795848017528968352009-05-26T13:51:14.286-04:002009-05-26T13:51:14.286-04:00I want to clear one thing up. There was absolutely...I want to clear one thing up. There was absolutely no scene of lacrosse players at "Charlies" yelling "Duke lacrosse" after the false allegations. My daughter was actually at the bar that night with Steph Sparks-Bob Exstrand's sister in law-and 2 lacrosse players-one of whom is my son. The scene was a complete fabrication by a delusional young woman who wanted to get some sort of attention. S. FogartyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com