tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post6259988616406708632..comments2024-01-04T07:21:18.243-05:00Comments on John In Carolina: N&O’s 9/15 Suit “recap:” My take (Con’t)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-6545614401072411612007-09-18T21:23:00.000-04:002007-09-18T21:23:00.000-04:00Thanks John!The posts combined were a great read!I...Thanks John!<BR/><BR/>The posts combined were a great read!<BR/><BR/>I liked the many good comments that followed, a great number putting much out there to think about.<BR/><BR/>While there were some I disagreed with, it was a pleasure to see them.<BR/><BR/>One topic I saw a few times was how the $30 million is a start to work from. If that were accurate, why would the limit of time be restricted to 30 days, when a case hasn't even been filed?<BR/><BR/>Looks like that amount is set in stone the way I see it.<BR/><BR/>Thanks again JohnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-61195021568026532722007-09-18T12:55:00.000-04:002007-09-18T12:55:00.000-04:00Jim in San Diego:Don't apologize.There is at least...Jim in San Diego:<BR/><BR/>Don't apologize.<BR/><BR/>There is at least one well-known way in which this is a North Carolina mess rather than a Durham mess - North Carolina's peculiar case management system which gives prosecutors immense power over judges' working conditions, and so gives judges reason to be unusually deferent to prosecutors.<BR/><BR/>It maw well be that the corrupting influence of this practice is strongest in Durham, but it is undeniably a corrupting influence, and it is state wide, and it hasn't been fixed yet.<BR/><BR/>And it is quite reasonable to ask whether Cooper's unwillingness to investigate the DPD or charge Crystal Mangum indicates that the toxic racial politics and/or criminal conspiracies of Durham have significant ties to the rest of the state.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-45134585202160602502007-09-17T15:20:00.000-04:002007-09-17T15:20:00.000-04:00To dsl at 12:36"Please do not offend the good citi...To dsl at 12:36<BR/><BR/>"Please do not offend the good citizens of North Carolina by implying that we are all like Durhamites"<BR/><BR/>I apologize. <BR/><BR/>Please note I tried to ask a rhetorical question: "how typical is Durham of North Carolina". My intent was to ask a question, because I do not know. I can accept the answer, "not typical at all", because I do not know.<BR/><BR/>However, asking this rhetorical question is a mistake. It stereotypes. It implies facts from ignorance. In short, it is prejudiced.<BR/><BR/>Which is what has gotten us so far into this mess already.<BR/><BR/>So, I regret the question. It detracted from my blog. <BR/><BR/>It also provoked a lengthy reaction to the comment, and not the major idea behind the post: there is lots to learn from an investigation, and poor minorities stand to gain the most from it.Jim in San Diegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07032079086884503680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-31003430109884626162007-09-17T15:09:00.000-04:002007-09-17T15:09:00.000-04:00Anon. 12:36When NC comes up switch the subject to ...Anon. 12:36<BR/><BR/>When NC comes up switch the subject to Illinois. LOL.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-69924991036645558322007-09-17T12:38:00.000-04:002007-09-17T12:38:00.000-04:0012:36.My spelling error: "...there exists" ( No...12:36.<BR/><BR/>My spelling error: "...there exists" ( Not "their)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-71506833210483140682007-09-17T12:36:00.000-04:002007-09-17T12:36:00.000-04:00Re: Jim in San Diego.Please do not offend the good...Re: Jim in San Diego.<BR/><BR/>Please do not offend the good citizens of North Carolina by implying that we are all like Durhamites.<BR/><BR/>We are NOT!<BR/><BR/>But their exists, IMO, an unholy alliance between Duke ( not really a NC school, but rather a national/ international school located in NC) and their "diversity imbalanced" faculty and the NAACP-driven Durham community. They have a codependant relationship. <BR/><BR/>This is a unique dilemma. It was exactly this cooperative effort between Duke, Duham politician, and Durham police that lead to the hoax.<BR/><BR/>In other states, and other schools, you may have one of these factors, or even two, but to have all three is uncommon.For example, the infamous "Water Buffalo" incident was in PA. But no one has generalized that all PA schools are the same, or that Pa citizens approve that kind of prejudice in their universities. <BR/><BR/>Other hoaxes, framing other innocent people, are in other places.<BR/><BR/>As a North Carolinian, I would appreciate it if people understood the unique dymanics of this particular HOAX, and not generalize it to our whole state.<BR/><BR/>I would also have been prouder of NC if more of our elected politicians, both on state and national levels had responded more aggressively to the need for restraint and due process. Unfortunately, they, like many other politicians in many other states, have one eye on the ball, and the other on their reelection. That is precisely why we must have the rule of law, and those laws must be enforced regarless of race or gender.<BR/><BR/>dslAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-41775891982226369812007-09-17T11:35:00.001-04:002007-09-17T11:35:00.001-04:00M. Simon has made a good point about skeletons in ...M. Simon has made a good point about skeletons in the closet.<BR/><BR/>The chance that this is the only case where Det Gottlieb has manufactured evidence to convict an innocent person is remote. <BR/><BR/>The chance that this is the only case where DA Niphong railroaded innocent people is remote. <BR/><BR/>The fact no one within the DA's office apparently objected to the frame suggests a wider problem. <BR/><BR/>The way that the officer who first interviewed Mangum and concluded there was no rape became the subject of an internal investigation by the Durham P.D. suggests a wider problem. <BR/><BR/>I recall anecdotal evidence some months ago from Durham that it was known throughout the PD that there had been no rape. It would be great to find out if this was true or not.<BR/><BR/>The way the Durham legal community rallied around a disbarred, disgraced DA found guilty of more than two dozen ethical violations and criminal contempt of court as he sought to convict innocent people suggests a wider problem. (Judge Osmond Smith is not part of the Durham legal community. He is an outside judge). <BR/><BR/>From here, we still have not gotten over the spectacle of two sitting Durham judges testifying how honest Mike Niphong was, AFTER he had been disbarred for more than two dozen ethical violations. Judge Marcia Morey's testimony under oath that the degree of candor an attorney owes the Court is different before trial begins than at trial is mind boggling. <BR/><BR/>Judge Morey's hugs of Mike Niphong in court, and her presence to support him as he was sent off to jail for criminal contempt of court is beyond the pale.<BR/><BR/>How typical is Durham of North Carolina?<BR/><BR/>These are the reasons in an earlier post I opined that it would be justice for the Duke victims to be paid a lot of money. But, I hoped Durham would not settle, so we can get to the bottom of these wider problems. Ironically, the real beneficiaries of an investigation are liable to be poor minorities.Jim in San Diegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07032079086884503680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-15393809723275871472007-09-17T11:35:00.000-04:002007-09-17T11:35:00.000-04:00Duke will give Durham the cash to settle ( behind ...Duke will give Durham the cash to settle ( behind the scenes and/or indirectly, of course). Duke does not want a civil suit against Durham since this suit will expose the actions of Duke officials who conspired, at some level, with Durham authorities to deny the lacrosse players their civil rights.<BR/><BR/> WFNAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-4910213188132311132007-09-17T08:38:00.000-04:002007-09-17T08:38:00.000-04:00Notable quote from Barry Scheck:What do you think ...Notable quote from Barry Scheck:<BR/><BR/><I>What do you think about that Mr. Fung?</I>M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-78886121724500710532007-09-17T08:34:00.000-04:002007-09-17T08:34:00.000-04:00Durham is under attack front and rear.If discovery...Durham is under attack front and rear.<BR/><BR/>If discovery is about patterns and practices it may be possible to look into other cases that haven't gotten as much publicity. There will be disgruntled lawyers dying to speak to Sheck and team.<BR/><BR/>There are skeletons in the closet.<BR/><BR/>Does Durham want those skeletons public?<BR/><BR/>Do they want Sheck & Co going over everything uncovered in discovery to the Feds? Or would they prefer the Feds do their own work?<BR/><BR/>Decisions, decisions.M. Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508934110558197375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-4119708287343073422007-09-17T00:22:00.000-04:002007-09-17T00:22:00.000-04:00John: Simply a great analysis — one of your bests....John: Simply a great analysis — one of your bests. Keep up the good work and thanks for all of your efforts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-90789548630407754162007-09-17T00:11:00.000-04:002007-09-17T00:11:00.000-04:00One of the great tragedies of the Duke Rape Hoax i...One of the great tragedies of the Duke Rape Hoax is the failure of those whose agenda is justice for all to use the Hoax as an opportunity to forge a coalition. Surely poor minorities would benefit by an alliance with wealthy white victims of injustice?<BR/><BR/>Instead, the floor was stolen by those with a different agenda. It is an agenda based on a pathological vision that everything can somehow be explained by race/gender/class conflict. <BR/><BR/>"Narratives" and "metanarratives" were substituted for verifiable facts and reasonable conclusions drawn them. What a missed opportunity.<BR/><BR/>Here are two questions of the N.C. NAACP, the Group of 88, the NCCU student body, and citizens of Durham:<BR/><BR/>First, who is the author of the following?:<BR/><BR/> -"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere"<BR/><BR/> -"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy ...was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people"<BR/><BR/> -"I look to a day when people will not be judgmed by the color of their skin, but by the ocntent of their character"<BR/><BR/>Second, how is it possible the author of these wonderful words is my hero, and not yours?Jim in San Diegohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07032079086884503680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-50564065319578291052007-09-16T23:33:00.000-04:002007-09-16T23:33:00.000-04:00John - The folk in Durham and the DPD have been he...John - The folk in Durham and the DPD have been held up to intense scorn over a year. I can not imagine, they care at all what outsiders think. I believe everything to know is already known. Durham has nothing to gain in settling this thing out of court.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13073631.post-80947843495170292632007-09-16T22:29:00.000-04:002007-09-16T22:29:00.000-04:00John,Good post. I agree with you wholeheartedly t...John,<BR/><BR/>Good post. I agree with you wholeheartedly that Durham is vulnerable, very vulnerable. Furthermore, an actual lawsuit will bring out large numbers of "bad acts" that will make it obvious that:<BR/><BR/>1. Higher-ups knew what the DPD was doing, but did nothing to stop the police;<BR/><BR/>2. The infamous 4/4 lineup was not conducted in secret, and everyone in authority basically signed off on it;<BR/><BR/>3. No one in authority in Durham tried to slow down the police;<BR/><BR/>4. People in authority, including people in the DPD, had misgivings early on about the case, but said nothing.<BR/><BR/>Believe me, Durham is quite vulnerable, and all of this "we're not budging" bravado is just lame talk. These people are in trouble, and they know it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com